A Conversation with Katie Couric on Democracy and the Press
0001
1 The George Washington University Presents
2 -----------------------------X
3 THE KALB REPORT :
4 A Conversation with :
5 Katie Couric on Democracy :
6 And the Press :
7 :
8 -----------------------------X
9 Washington, D.C.
10 September 25, 2007
11
12
13 An interview held at the National Press
14 Club, 14th and F Streets, NW, Main Ballroom,
15 Washington, D.C. at 8:00 p.m., September 25, 2007,
16 and the proceedings being taken down by Stenotype by
17 JOE W. STRICKLAND, RPR, CRR, and transcribed under
18 his direction.
19
20
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22
0002
1 MR. KLEIN: Good evening and welcome to
2 the National Press Club. My name is Gil Klein. I'm
3 a national correspondent with Media General
4 Newspapers and I was President of the club in 1994
5 when we started the Kalb Report.
6 I have been to a lot of Press Club events
7 in my 22 years and this is probably the biggest crowd
8 I have ever seen. Katie Couric, you have put
9 Elizabeth Taylor to shame.
10 [Laughter.]
11 MR. KLEIN: This is our 57th forum and the
12 first one to kick off the National Press Club's
13 Centennial. This club was founded 100 years ago in
14 1908, and I hope that you will buy our Centennial
15 book which can be found on our Web site.
16 This has been a great alliance, this Kalb
17 Report with the George Washington University, the
18 National Press Club and, the Shorenstein Center at
19 Harvard University. It is underwritten by the Ethics
20 and Excellence in Journalism Foundation.
21 Marvin here has collected a lot of titles.
22 He's the Edward R. Murrow professor emeritus at
0003
1 Harvard. We are just getting started here. This
2 year he is the Welsley presidential fellow at the
3 George Washington University. Welling. Excuse me, I
4 can't read my own handwriting.
5 And next year he will be defender of the
6 faith and protector of England, Wales, and Scotland.
7 This show is being taped by C-SPAN. It is
8 going to be heard locally on Washington Post
9 Radio, which is 1500 AM -- 1500 AM and 107.7 FM. It
10 will be seen on Public Television around the country
11 in November, and it will be heard on 400 radio
12 stations of the CBS Radio Network.
13 Now, when I ask you to please --
14 [Applause.]
15 MR. KLEIN: Since this is going to go out,
16 please turn off all cell phones or turn them to stun
17 or something. Make sure that no cell phones go off.
18 And please, we have to keep this center aisle
19 completely clear when this show begins, because the
20 cameras are coming down here. I hope all of you
21 photographers will get what you need and then get out
22 of the way.
0004
1 There should have been a survey on
2 everyone's seat. Please fill it out and we will drop
3 it in the boxes at the door so we get an idea of what
4 you like on these forums.
5 And there will be a reception afterwards
6 right out here when we open up these doors at the end
7 of the show. I invite you all to come out. The bar
8 will be open and we will sit around and talk about
9 what a great job -- we will talk about what happened
10 here tonight.
11 It is now my pleasure to introduce the man
12 who does all the work to make this show possible, the
13 Vice President of the George Washington University,
14 Mr. Freedman.
15 [Applause.]
16 MR. FREEDMAN: Thanks Gil. Good evening
17 everybody. We have just a little over 5 minutes
18 before we start, so we will wrap it up. There will
19 be a little bit of silent time between now and the
20 beginning of the program.
21 May I ask the students in the audience to
22 raise their hands. Terrific. Thank you all for
0005
1 coming out tonight. You really make this forum
2 series. You and the members of the National Press
3 Club are the principal reason why we engage in this
4 series. As Gil mentioned, we are honored to be part
5 of the NPC Centennial, presenting four forums on
6 Democracy and the Press. And again we thank our
7 partnership that produces the series, GW, the
8 National Press Club and the Shorenstein Center. And
9 again we thank the Ethics and Excellence in
10 Journalism Foundation for underwriting the series for
11 5 consecutive years now.
12 Our broadcast partners are CBC Radio,
13 American Public Television, and Oklahoma Educational
14 Television Authority. And as Gil mentioned we also
15 welcome C-SPAN tonight and other media that are
16 covering the forum.
17 We would like to recognize a few special
18 guests with us tonight. Beginning with I am very
19 pleased and proud to introduce you to the new
20 President of the George Washington University, Steven
21 Knapp and his wife, Diane. Steve would you stand up
22 and be recognized.
0006
1 [Applause.]
2 MR. FREEDMAN: Thank you. We also have
3 with us the new Chairman of the board of trustees of
4 the George Washington University, Russ Ramsey.
5 [Applause.]
6 MR. FREEDMAN: And we are very pleased to
7 have us with tonight Mr. Walter Shorenstein, who flew
8 in from San Francisco to be with us. Mr. Shorenstein
9 has demonstrated his commitment to a strong media and
10 strong democracy in so many ways, especially as the
11 founder of the Joan Shorenstein Center at Harvard and
12 his work with Marvin Kalb.
13 We are very pleased also to have with us,
14 delighted to have with us sitting next to President
15 Knapp and Diane Knapp, Katie Couric's parents,
16 Eleanor and John Couric. Would you stand up.
17 [Applause.]
18 MR. FREEDMAN: A few quick logistics for
19 tonight. You see standing in front and shouting out
20 those times a wonderful GW alumna and former CNN
21 producer, Heather Date, who is our Kalb Report
22 producer extraordinaire. She Heather will be giving
0007
1 Marvin and Katie the cues and will start the program
2 at 8 o'clock. This program will consist of 55
3 minutes of Q-and-A with Katie and Marvin Kalb and
4 then 20 minutes of your questions. Marvin will be
5 opening and closing the program cold and we'll be
6 adding the opening and closing music and credits
7 afterward.
8 At 9 o'clock, or thereabouts, Marvin will
9 thank Katie and it will seem like we are at end of
10 the program. That actually will be your cue to move
11 to the microphones on either side which will be held
12 by Dick Golden and by Tom Robbins. And the aisles on
13 the side, if you will move over to them at 9 o'clock
14 we will get as many of your questions in as we can.
15 Again, you thanks to you, our students,
16 faculty, alumni, National Press Club members, we
17 appreciate very much your support of this series and
18 your joining us tonight.
19 Finally, our very deep sincere thanks to
20 Katie Couric for joining us here tonight. We talk
21 about moving heaven on earth to get to a place and
22 Katie and her executive producer, Rick Kaplan,
0008
1 effectively moved The CBS Evening News to Washington
2 tonight to make this happen and we thank you very,
3 very much.
4 [Applause.]
5 MR. FREEDMAN: And last but not least, our
6 thanks to my friend and partner in this series for
7 the last 14 years, the last person personally hired
8 at CBS News by Edward R. Murrow and in many ways the
9 keeper of the Murrow flame in keeping the integrity
10 of broadcast journalism alight, Mr. Marvin Kalb.
11 [Applause.]
12 MR. FREEDMAN: We will have some silence
13 for the next minute or so. Enjoy the program tonight
14 and thank you so much for joining us.
15 MR. KALB: Hello and welcome to another
16 edition of the Kalb Report here at the National Press
17 Club which is now celebrating its 100th birthday. I
18 am Marvin Kalb and our subject tonight is Democracy
19 and the Press. Our guest is Katie Couric the anchor
20 and managing editor of The CBS Evening News and a
21 correspondent for 60 Minutes. If I can call you
22 Katie and not Ms. Couric as everybody else.
0009
1 MS. COURIC: That is fine, Marvin.
2 MR. KALB: That is fine, you can call me
3 Marvin. I think you will agree these are momentous
4 times in Iraq and the United States and the war is at
5 the top of our national concerns. You are not a war
6 correspondent. But you were in Iraq recently doing a
7 full week of what might be called war reporting from
8 Baghdad and Damascus and I believe it was your first
9 visit to Iraq.
10 MS. COURIC: That's right.
11 MR. KALB: I am curious. Now having seen
12 it, having talked to the troops, having listened to
13 the generals, do you think that the American people
14 are being given the straight story, the truth about
15 what is happening in Iraq?
16 MS. COURIC: I think that the truth of
17 what is happening in Iraq is incredibly complicated
18 and also incredibly nuanced. And I think it would
19 require reading for 24/7, every publication with
20 various points of view to really understand fully the
21 situation in Iraq.
22 And I think at this point in time, 4 years
0010
1 into the war, that almost everyone who discusses Iraq
2 has an agenda that is fairly entrenched at this
3 juncture.
4 So I think that certainly the media tries
5 as best as it can to deliver important information
6 about Iraq and cover it as well as it possibly can.
7 So I think that there is a certain amount
8 of Iraq fatigue among the populus, to be honest with
9 you. And I think as I said you really have to read a
10 variety of points of view. You can't necessarily
11 learn everything you need to learn about Iraq from a
12 Pentagon spokesman, clearly, or from a liberal Web
13 site either.
14 So I think you really -- if you seek it
15 out, then I think you can get the news and
16 information you need. The question is do people
17 really want to seek it out at this point in time?
18 MR. KALB: So what you are really saying
19 is that there is no single truth to be discovered
20 about Iraq?
21 MS. COURIC: Yeah, I think that is what I
22 found. I found that everyone views what is happening
0011
1 there -- first of all, so much of it is theoretical
2 and speculation. Nobody really knows for sure what
3 would happen if U.S. troops withdrew or in terms of
4 what kind of civil war would ensue. And I think a
5 lot of it is as I said theoretical.
6 And so I think many people are still
7 fixated on whether the war was right to begin with
8 and how it was executed in the early stages.
9 MR. KALB: What do you mean by
10 theoretical? Because there is so much that is real
11 and actual.
12 MS. COURIC: I think in --
13 MR. KALB: That one can see.
14 MS. COURIC: In the here-and-now it is,
15 but I think in terms of speculating and coming up
16 with some kind of game plan in terms of a phased
17 troop withdrawal or maintaining some kind of U.S.
18 security presence for many years to come, or what
19 will actually happen in terms of will the country
20 implode? Will it be worse than it is now? Will a
21 strongman dictatorship take over if the United States
22 goes out too soon? What role does Iran really have
0012
1 in terms of the power vacuum that might be created?
2 That is what I mean by theoretical. A lot of it is
3 into the future.
4 MR. KALB: Speculative.
5 MS. COURIC: Yeah, exactly.
6 MR. KALB: What are the areas that you
7 feel the American people ought to know more about
8 concerning this war?
9 MS. COURIC: Well, clearly I think the
10 human toll sometimes gets obscured by the ongoing
11 statistics and kind of the Iraq news that comes out.
12 I think one thing that I was reminded of
13 when I was there was the enormous patriotism and the
14 quality of the people serving over there.
15 MR. KALB: You meaning the patriotism of
16 the American troops?
17 MS. COURIC: Yes. And the fact that they
18 really do believe -- many of them, not all -- very
19 strongly in the mission of trying to help the Iraqi
20 people build a better society. Now, whether or not
21 that is doable, there is certainly a difference of
22 opinion among the servicemen and women with whom I
0013
1 spoke. But the extraordinary sacrifice I think was
2 something that I was reminded of. In a 123-degree
3 heat walking around Baghdad for several hours while
4 they were wearing tremendous amount of gear and
5 equipment and bulletproof vests. And of course I
6 almost passed out after an hour with a 30-pound vest
7 myself. And I thought every day they get out there
8 and do this.
9 And you know at this point, we were
10 patrolling Baghdad and there was relative calm.
11 Certainly in the areas the military showed me, with
12 good reason. And I think they felt that this new
13 tactic of having joint security stations and being
14 integrated in a neighborhood and being a more
15 ubiquitous presence for not only the local population
16 and kind of hard wiring them against extremism was
17 something that was valuable, was working, and that
18 they felt really positive about. At least that is
19 what they said.
20 MR. KALB: Is there any fault to be placed
21 on anybody, whether it's the generals or the troops
22 or the media or the White House, about the war?
0014
1 Because there's such a deep and growing unhappiness
2 about what is going on. You spoke about fatigue.
3 But it's even more than that. There is a feeling
4 that this whole thing is a mess and we really
5 shouldn't be there. Do you get any of that in
6 Baghdad?
7 MS. COURIC: Yeah, there was one U.S.
8 soldier who told me he just didn't know whether
9 democracy was possible in Iraq. And certainly you
10 have heard that from a number of policy experts who
11 feel that it's just not a part of the DNA in Iraq.
12 And I think the one thing I agreed with
13 President Ahmadinejad that I think he was saying to
14 Charlie Rose last night was that oftentimes
15 westerners don't really understand fully the values
16 of this particular culture. And I think the jury is
17 out whether a democracy can really thrive in Iraq and
18 if there can be political reconciliation among these
19 various sectarian groups.
20 MR. KALB: But this enormous price is
21 being paid on an expectation, on a belief, on the
22 possibility of a democracy being built in Iraq when
0015
1 the history of Iraq would suggest that it has never
2 happened before.
3 MS. COURIC: Well, I think also -- I mean,
4 I think sometimes I am frustrated because the fact of
5 the matter is the U.S. invaded. And the country's
6 infrastructure which was suffering under Saddam was
7 very much damaged and in some cases obliterated. And
8 you know, I guess it was Colin Powell who quoted the
9 Pottery Barn slogan: "You break it, you take it."
10 And I think the fact of the matter is you have to
11 deal with the here and now.
12 And I think that is what is lacking in the
13 discourse. What is the solution? What are the
14 possible ramifications if we withdrew precipitously?
15 And I think those are the kinds of things we should
16 be hearing from our politicians and that right now
17 there is so much emphasis, as I said, on whether or
18 not it was a wise decision in the first place. I
19 think certainly people who covered that fell down on
20 the job in terms of getting the right information and
21 kind of rolled over in terms of U.S. policy and
22 really didn't do their due diligence on that in that
0016
1 period of time.
2 MR. KALB: --
3 MS. COURIC: Well, I talked about this a
4 lot with people in the business and thought about it
5 a lot. Because I remember at the time the buildup
6 was happening, I felt really uncomfortable with the
7 whole atmosphere of the country. I think sometimes
8 we forget that people in the press -- the press is
9 made up of human beings who experience the same raw
10 emotions.
11 MR. KALB: Oh, really?
12 MS. COURIC: Believe it or not, not
13 automatons. And looking back on it, I think
14 everyone -- everyone in the United States was reeling
15 from September 11th. And I think there was a lot of
16 fear in our culture. I think on some level we were
17 looking for some kind of patriarchal hero to help us
18 and protect us. And I think we failed to ask really
19 important questions.
20 And you know the whole culture of wearing
21 flags on your lapel and saying "we" when you are
22 referring to the United States. And even the shock
0017
1 and awe in the initial stages, it was just too
2 jubilant and just a little uncomfortable. And I
3 remember feeling when I was anchoring the Today Show
4 this inevitable march towards war and kind of feeling
5 like will anybody put the brakes on this? And is
6 this being properly challenged by the right people?
7 And I think at the time anyone who
8 questioned the administration was considered
9 unpatriotic. And it was a very difficult position to
10 be in.
11 And corporate America owning a lot of
12 media outlets, there is a lot of pressure. And I
13 remember getting an e-mail from one of my bosses when
14 I had asked a challenging question of Condoleeza
15 Rice, and he forward an angry e-mail from a woman in
16 Atlanta who was an office manager at a law firm
17 saying I was unnecessarily confrontational and
18 antagonistic. And quite frankly I thought I was firm
19 but polite. And he forwarded the e-mail to me with
20 no explanation, which I thought was a fairly
21 insidious way of saying "Back off" to me in terms of
22 questioning the administration.
0018
1 So I wrote him back an e-mail and said I
2 am just curious why you forwarded this to me. I try
3 to be equally challenging to everyone I talk to on
4 the show and if you have a problem with that, I would
5 like love to discuss it with you personally. And he
6 responded that these usually come in big groups.
7 Obviously when there is a certain agenda being
8 pursued, I got inundated with e-mails from James
9 Dobson once when I did the Matthew Shepherd out in
10 Wyoming, the young gay man who was viciously
11 murdered. But he said this was different.
12 But I think there is a lot of
13 undercurrents of pressure to not rock the boat too
14 much for a variety of reasons, whether it was
15 corporate considerations. And at the time there was
16 not a lot of questioning about the war by anyone.
17 MR. KALB: What do you think about now?
18 Do you think that the media is doing its job?
19 MS. COURIC: Well, I think that is a
20 sweeping question and requires probably a sweeping
21 generalization. So that is probably not fair. I
22 think that -- that media outlets are in many cases
0019
1 doing their jobs. As I said, I think many -- the
2 country is so polarized that people see events
3 according to their own agendas. And often to their
4 own papers' or networks' agenda.
5 I think that the major networks are pretty
6 down the middle. I have to say that. But I had to
7 laugh after General Petraeus testified at the two
8 different headlines that I saw on my desk the next
9 day with the New York Post, Rupert Murdock's paper,
10 saying "General Petraeus dazzles Congress" and The
11 New York Times, "He failed to win over any converts."
12 As I said, the best thing you can do -- it
13 is very difficult in this day and age to find pretty
14 down the middle, this is what is happening, that kind
15 of reporting.
16 Knowing that you have to make sure it is
17 as balanced as you possibly can. But I think it is
18 harder and harder to find these days. I read The
19 Economist because I think they are pretty down the
20 middle on things.
21 MR. KALB: Without mentioning any news
22 organization in the United States that you consider
0020
1 right down the middle?
2 MS. COURIC: Well, I would say, without
3 the editorial page, possibly the Wall Street Journal.
4 But probably that to me is the one publication with
5 the least sort of -- maybe Time and Newsweek as well.
6 MR. KALB: But is it necessarily the best
7 kind of journalism to be down the middle if there is
8 something glaringly obvious staring the journalist in
9 the face that something could be wrong?
10 MS. COURIC: Right.
11 MR. KALB: And then if you say stay down
12 the middle you are allowing what is desperately wrong
13 to continue.
14 MS. COURIC: No, obviously I think when
15 there is something glaringly wrong. But I think
16 there is also, if you want to say the war is
17 glaringly wrong at this point in time, I think if you
18 are covering the news in the present and you are
19 talking about what needs to be done now, what the
20 situation is now, then it's important to observe what
21 is going on and to ask challenging questions.
22 Certainly you know, the President needs to
0021
1 talk about the GAO report that showed that the Iraqis
2 had only reached 15 of 18 benchmarks. And the
3 general, General Jack Jones, the retired general who
4 found the Iraqi police was in a state of disarray and
5 needed to start from scratch. And officials need to
6 be obviously asked about those things.
7 But unless you are on cable and you are
8 being a very strong advocate for one position or
9 another, I do think there is a place for people to
10 make observations, to ask challenging questions, but
11 let the viewer make a decision. Because I think
12 right now what people do is they watch programs and
13 read publications that reflect their own points of
14 view and they don't necessarily seek out other points
15 of view to kind of give them the full picture.
16 MR. KALB: Lately, I have been hearing
17 that the military is again beginning to finger the
18 media as the culprit in this war. And I am
19 presenting as evidence, but one very small bit of
20 evidence, the statement by Major General Rick Lynch
21 who is one of our top people in Iraq. And he said
22 this war is winnable -- his word -- if only the media
0022
1 cooperates properly. What is in his mind?
2 MS. COURIC: Well, I think that is the
3 oldest trick in the book, of course. To blame the
4 media. You know, Marvin, that has been happening
5 forever and I think that is a sign of probably his
6 desperation.
7 MR. KALB: His only?
8 MS. COURIC: Well, probably maybe the
9 other members of the military as well feeling
10 desperate. You know I think -- you know it's hard to
11 say. I think it's very difficult to get a complete
12 picture of the situation in Iraq for security
13 reasons. Many reporters don't even leave the Green
14 Zone. And it's not as if you can walk around
15 knocking on doors. We did speak to an Iraqi family
16 in central Baghdad what their quality of life was
17 like on a daily basis. And I was told -- thankfully
18 after that interview -- that that was probably the
19 most dangerous thing we were going to do during our
20 stay there.
21 So you know it is very, very difficult to
22 get the full picture. You talk to as many experts as
0023
1 you can and get as many opinions as you can. But in
2 preparation for this trip I talked to many people
3 from different think tanks and you know there is a
4 different point of view from almost everyone with
5 whom you speak.
6 MR. KALB: Is there -- is there a
7 different vision of the reality of Iraq here among
8 the think tank people as opposed to there in Baghdad?
9 MS. COURIC: What do you mean? You mean
10 --
11 MR. KALB: What I mean is do the people
12 here have the same vision of the reality of Iraq as
13 the people in Baghdad have?
14 MS. COURIC: Of the Iraqis themselves?
15 MR. KALB: Or the Americans.
16 MS. COURIC: I think everybody obviously
17 deals with their own personal experience. There were
18 the seven soldiers who wrote the op-ed in the New
19 York Times. And I talked to General Petraeus about
20 that. And I think it depends where you are deployed,
21 what your experiences are. I am really glad they
22 wrote that piece and it was tragic that two of them
0024
1 later died in a car accident shortly after it was
2 published in the New York Times.
3 But I think -- I think it really depends
4 your world view, your point of view, and your
5 particular experiences. If you are in theater as
6 they say.
7 MR. KALB: You are in effect then sort of
8 rejecting the notion that there could be something in
9 Iraq that is large, glaring, obvious, but what you
10 are saying in effect is that all reporters doing
11 their jobs properly ought to try to balance it.
12 MS. COURIC: Well, not necessarily. I
13 mean I think that we tried to record events as they
14 happened. If Fallujah is happening and four
15 contractors are burned to death and dragged through
16 the streets, it is clear to us that chaos is ensuing
17 in Fallujah and that the Marines subsequently pull
18 out.
19 I think similarly if you know we go to
20 Anbar province, in the case of when I was there, and
21 we see that there has been some kind of coalition
22 formed between tribal leaders and the U.S. military
0025
1 because of their mutual distrust and hatred, quite
2 frankly, for Al Qaeda and we talk about that. Now,
3 obviously, I don't take it for face value. They are
4 Sunni tribal leaders there talking about it and you I
5 think as someone who covered the military at the
6 Pentagon, you have to be skeptical about what you are
7 being told and check facts and figures and try to
8 find other sources and other points of view.
9 But is it my job to go over and say this
10 war is terrible and a withdrawal is necessary
11 immediately? I don't necessarily think that is the
12 case.
13 MR. KALB: Okay. And you may partly be
14 answering the question I am about to ask you. When
15 you were wrapping up your trip you did a kind of
16 concluding statement, 2-and-a-half minutes as I
17 remember, from Damascus. And what struck me about it
18 is that you offered only one judgment about the war,
19 and you cushioned that by the way. You said, quote:
20 There are definitely areas where the situation is
21 improving. Fine.
22 But you then asked nine questions and this
0026
1 is what struck me about the piece. You asked nine
2 questions. Nine important questions about Iraq. But
3 you didn't even make an effort to answer them. And
4 so I am wondering why, if you raise nine important
5 questions. You have been there. You are an anchor
6 every night. You have seen the material that flows
7 into you. Surely on some of those nine questions you
8 must have had a strong view. Maybe you didn't.
9 MS. COURIC: You know, I don't think this
10 was my Walter Cronkite moment to say: This war is
11 bad. I don't think I do have the answers to those
12 questions quite frankly.
13 MR. KALB: Uh-huh.
14 MS. COURIC: I wish I did. I don't think
15 spending five or six days in Iraq necessarily makes
16 me -- qualifies me to answer those nine questions. I
17 think many of them were forward-looking. And I don't
18 really know, Marvin, I wish I did, what will happen
19 in terms of Iran, if the United States pulls out of
20 Iraq. I don't know the answer to that. I hope -- do
21 you?
22 MR. KALB: No.
0027
1 MS. COURIC: So I don't know many people
2 quite frankly who would know the answers to the
3 questions I posed. I think my goal was --
4 MR. KALB: You said things that suggests
5 that the government does know the answer.
6 MS. COURIC: I don't think so. I don't
7 think so necessarily. I mean, I think that obviously
8 the administration still feels that democracy is
9 possible.
10 MR. KALB: In Iraq?
11 MS. COURIC: In Iraq. I'm sorry, in Iraq.
12 Yeah. Were you talking about Iran?
13 MR. KALB: We were both talking about Iran
14 for a moment.
15 MS. COURIC: Yeah, well, I think that
16 obviously there is clear evidence that there has been
17 some kind of meddling with Iran and with Shiite
18 militias in southern Iraq. But I would love to you
19 read back the questions and if you could answer any
20 of them, or if even most experts could, I would be
21 very, very impressed.
22 MR. KALB: We will try. We will try.
0028
1 But then what is your definition of the
2 modern role of an anchor? Is an anchor today to be
3 the person who reads lead-ins and smiles happily
4 and --
5 MS. COURIC: Yes.
6 MR. KALB: And is the soul of detachment.
7 MS. COURIC: Yes, basically, yes.
8 MR. KALB: That is it? No opinions?
9 MS. COURIC: Of course not. Obviously I
10 have opinions, and I think the goal is to try to seek
11 out the truth. That speaking to your earlier
12 contention about sort of being straight down the
13 middle does not necessarily mean on the one hand they
14 say this and on the other hand they say that and you
15 all make the decision. Obviously, you want through
16 seeking facts try to ascertain a certain truth about
17 a certain story.
18 But I think there is a lot of advocacy
19 journalism and commentary out there today. And I
20 don't necessarily feel, unless there is a clear-cut
21 factual element to it, that an anchor person -- and
22 it depends, God knows, there are a million anchors in
0029
1 a million different media outlets in this day and
2 age, but I never really saw it as my role unless
3 something was really egregious and without question,
4 wrong. For example when David Duke was on the Today
5 Show I remember he denied that he said Jews belong in
6 the ash bin of society. And I actually was very
7 tough him to the surprise of many people because it
8 was in the early days on the Today Show.
9 And I think when someone is so clearly
10 wrong, that it is an anchor's responsibility. When
11 we covered the bridge collapse in Minneapolis, we
12 talked about crumbling infrastructure and the fact
13 that they built a huge, expensive stadium in
14 Minneapolis instead of paying attention to bridges
15 and roads. And that is a real problem that is an
16 epidemic in this country.
17 Yes, I feel like then you can speak out
18 and say that pretty much with certainty. I think you
19 need to be careful, frankly, on coming down on
20 certain positions when it is unclear. I mean I think
21 it's accepted far and wide that this war was probably
22 -- that this might not have been on the President's
0030
1 top of his agenda. And that people have questioned,
2 you know what was really behind this. And I think
3 that is been very well documented.
4 MR. KALB: That last sentence, what did
5 you mean by that?
6 MS. COURIC: Well, that the war might have
7 been a mistake. I think that is pretty much
8 accepted.
9 MR. KALB: Do you have a personal opinion
10 about that?
11 MS. COURIC: I have never quite understood
12 why it was so high on the administration's agenda,
13 when terrorism was going on in Afghanistan and
14 Pakistan and that it had no true connection with Al
15 Qaeda. Now, there was talk of that early on and
16 still many people in this country believe there is a
17 connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. And I think
18 obviously I think everyone in this room would agree
19 that people in this country were misled in terms of
20 the rationale for war.
21 MR. KALB: You say there is a connection?
22 MS. COURIC: There is not a connection
0031
1 between Iraq and September 11th.
2 MR. KALB: Uh-huh.
3 MS. COURIC: Ironically, there is now
4 between Iraq and Al Qaeda, which is interesting, I
5 guess. And I think the mistakes that were made
6 disbanding the Iraqi military and leaving 100,000
7 Sunni men feeling marginalized and angry was
8 questionable. Whether or not there were enough boots
9 on the ground. The feeling that we would be welcomed
10 as liberators and didn't need to focus as much on
11 maintaining security. I mean those things are
12 accepted truths. And I feel totally comfortable
13 saying any of that at some point you know, if
14 required on television.
15 But I think everybody is sort of operating
16 from that context. What I try to deal with in
17 covering news is what is happening today here and now
18 and how this country is going to be able to deal with
19 it.
20 MR. KALB: Okay. Let me pause for a
21 moment to remind our viewers and listeners that this
22 is the Kalb Report I am Marvin Kalb. We are here at
0032
1 the National Press Club and I am talking to Katie
2 Couric.
3 Katie, I would like to ask you about the
4 so-called new media. Many of the students in this
5 audience get most of the news about the world from
6 the Internet and that poses a huge competitive
7 challenge for the networks -- to the networks.
8 Do you think it's possible that in 5 or 10
9 years down the road that a program such as the CBS
10 Evening News will not be there because it's too
11 expensive to produce and there will be too few people
12 watching? They will all be on the Internet in one
13 way or another? How do you see this meshing of the
14 old and the new media and looking to the future, and
15 not that far out, how it would affect your program?
16 MS. COURIC: Well, obviously that is
17 something that all the networks and many media
18 outlets, cable television too, everyone is dealing
19 with that eventuality. And I think that is how they
20 view it -- as an eventuality. The fact of the matter
21 is that hopefully content will still matter. That is
22 what old media types say, that content is king and
0033
1 you still need to have programming and credible
2 reporting and accurate information on the Internet.
3 You know a lot of the information you get
4 is, you know, some guy in his pajamas using a laptop
5 spewing his personal opinion, and not very politely I
6 might add, on a variety of subjects.
7 So I think that the real challenge will be
8 how do you deliver news and information in an
9 important and accurate way on the Internet. And
10 whether it will be --
11 MR. KALB: In place of what you are doing
12 now or in addition to that?
13 MS. COURIC: Well, I think that, you know,
14 it's sort of a generational thing. I see my
15 daughters they never watch -- well they do watch
16 television. They watch the OC and they are very
17 excited about Gossip Girl.
18 But you know in terms of regular
19 television viewing, news viewing, I don't think they
20 pay a ton of attention to the news right now. They
21 are 16 and 11. They do watch my broadcast
22 occasionally and I do give them a pop quiz when I
0034
1 come home for dinner.
2 But I think there still will be a role. I
3 think it is anyone's guess, Marvin, what exactly that
4 will look like in terms of how we will make the
5 transition to the internet. I think it is a real --
6 it is a real question.
7 MR. KALB: It is indeed. It's the big
8 sort of technological media question before us all.
9 When you first arrived at CBS last year,
10 you were on the cover of Newsweek which I have right
11 mere in front of me. And part of the big hype thing
12 that was going on at the time and the questions that
13 were put on the cover of Newsweek were: Will she
14 shine at night? And who will watch? Now that was
15 obviously a reference to your great success on the
16 Today program.
17 Inside the magazine seemed to answer its
18 own questions and wrote: CBS is hoping Katie will
19 draw me viewers but the real action in TV news may be
20 happening on the web, unquote.
21 So is the real action on the web? I mean
22 do you feel the ground kind of being pulled out from
0035
1 under you now?
2 MS. COURIC: I don't know if it's the
3 ground being pulled out from under me, but you
4 definitely sense a transition going on and the way
5 media is consumed. There is absolutely no question
6 about it. Many of my colleagues they talk about it.
7 They don't watch morning shows as much. They check
8 on their computers to kind of get an early morning
9 feel to get kind of a smattering of different outlets
10 and then they are on their way.
11 So I would say for all of you aspiring
12 journalists that obviously the Internet is the wave
13 of the future, already has become a hugely important
14 asset in the media. And you know I sort of knew that
15 when I took this job. You know I didn't say oh, good
16 I am going to work on the evening news which has a
17 growing audience. I knew it was a dwindling
18 audience. I knew it was an aging audience quite
19 frankly. And I knew that it would decline in
20 numbers. And that it would not quite have the
21 stature that it once had with Tom and Peter and Dan.
22 But at the same time, I thought it was a
0036
1 very important genre. Some 27 million people watch
2 it every night. The median age is 60, and many of my
3 friends and people that I spend time with aren't at
4 home to watch it at 6:30 at night. Or in some cases
5 on the West Coast in Seattle I think it runs at 5:30.
6 It's very difficult and I think the way people live,
7 our life styles are very different too. That is why
8 morning shows -- I read recently that people are
9 getting up much earlier, they are getting to bed much
10 earlier as well, and they are working longer hours.
11 Which I think that our lifestyle always also is
12 having a big impact on the way news and information
13 is consumed.
14 MR. KALB: You have many friends, many,
15 many friends who say that the American people are not
16 yet ready for a woman anchor. You have heard that
17 conversation a hundred times that there is an
18 underlying discomfort in many minds about the idea of
19 a woman delivering a very serious newscast. And that
20 they say that that is the reason, the principal
21 reason why your ratings have dipped. Do you agree
22 with that?
0037
1 MS. COURIC: You know, wow, okay. Well, I
2 think there probably is -- remains in this country an
3 underlying distrust of any women in a position of
4 power. I think that there are some people that don't
5 feel completely comfortable with that.
6 But I wouldn't say that is the only reason
7 probably that I have had certain challenges. I think
8 some of them --
9 MR. KALB: What are the other reasons?
10 MS. COURIC: I am getting to those,
11 Marvin. Some of them are --
12 MR. KALB: I wanted to encourage you.
13 MS. COURIC: Thank you. I appreciate
14 that. Some of them are out of my control. Some of
15 the things that we just talked about in the way media
16 is consumed in this country, lifestyle issues.
17 I think probably David Gregory a friend of
18 mine said it's almost like you got almost too -- this
19 sounds kind of weird, you became almost too well
20 known and too much of a personality to fit into a
21 22-minute broadcast.
22 I think perhaps on the Today Show, where I
0038
1 felt very, very proud of a lot of my work there. And
2 I probably have interviewed more world leaders and
3 public figures than many of my colleagues.
4 Having said that, I think the fact that
5 the Today Show was a real mix of segments and that
6 one minute we might be doing an interview with the
7 Vice President or Joe Biden on the 9/11 Commission
8 and in the next half-hour we might be doing something
9 very, very light and different. And at times quite
10 frivolous. But about you know some of the lighter
11 segments are interesting.
12 Even in the medical segments and woman's
13 health segments that might not be traditional hard
14 news were very important in many ways and I tried to
15 bring the same level of importance and commitment to
16 those segments. Not obviously the fashion shows and
17 cooking segments. And if I did another wedding --
18 what ring do you think the bride should pick? I felt
19 a little like a game show host during some of those
20 things.
21 But I think that they -- they probably
22 gave people the impression that I wasn't a serious
0039
1 person because they saw me do the mix of things and
2 so suddenly when I was put in a format where it was
3 very no personality driven really at all, I think it
4 was a bit of an adjustment for people. They were
5 like what happened to her? She used to be fun and
6 say funny things. And it was just a very different
7 role for me. And I think it took and is taking
8 people a while to get their heads around that.
9 MR. KALB: Your boss, Leslie Moonves hired
10 you and said he wanted to change the news completely.
11 "No more," he said, "voice of God stuff," going back
12 to my generation, none of that. You were going to
13 try a whole new approach. But that approach didn't
14 work.
15 MS. COURIC: Well, I think first of all,
16 I think Leslie was -- his quotes were exaggerated I
17 think to be honest with you. I think he talked about
18 the voice of God. At one point he made a joke about
19 blowing up CBS News and changing everything. And I
20 think what we wanted to do was to make the news more
21 accessible, a little more understandable, a little
22 more casual, less sort of traditional if we could.
0040
1 To say here's what is going on in Iraq and
2 if you are confused about this, we are going to
3 explain to you the difference between Sunnis and
4 Shiites. Or you know just to try different things.
5 And I think what we found quite frankly was that this
6 is a very traditional audience that really wants a
7 traditional newscast.
8 MR. KALB: And that is what you are giving
9 them now?
10 MS. COURIC: Yeah, I think so. And Rick
11 and I have talked about it. My executive producer.
12 And he said that I wish you would talk to me, because
13 we have tried to change the Evening News before and
14 it just never works. And I think the conundrum is
15 are you willing to really make a change and risk
16 alienating your core audience, i.e., people of the
17 average age of 60 who want a traditional newscast for
18 an audience that may not exist at that hour of the
19 day? So I think that was the big conundrum.
20 MR. KALB: Did you solve that?
21 MS. COURIC: No.
22 MR. KALB: No.
0041
1 MS. COURIC: No.
2 MR. KALB: So you have gone back to the
3 traditional newscast now?
4 MS. COURIC: Yes, we have.
5 MR. KALB: And the question I think that
6 flows from that, given your enthusiasm for the
7 earlier format, are you a happy camper now doing this
8 more traditional role?
9 MS. COURIC: At times, you know, I get
10 frustrated because I love interacting with people. I
11 like reporting, really enjoyed going to Iraq and
12 talking to people, whether it was the Iraqi family or
13 various military officials. And I think that is
14 where my skills really lie.
15 And I think if I can do pieces like that
16 -- and I also really enjoy the editorial process,
17 talking about how we can do pieces differently. I
18 would like to stretch the envelope a little more,
19 quite frankly, Rick, and try some new things. But I
20 think that we wanted to say for those who didn't
21 think we were -- and by the way I didn't think
22 anything we did in the early days necessarily said we
0042
1 are not serious broadcasters, we did longer pieces
2 and we did something called Free Speech.
3 MR. KALB: Right.
4 MS. COURIC: We had probably fewer stories
5 because we had longer stories. But I think quite
6 frankly that the whole notion that we were so light
7 isn't really borne out in the shows that we did and I
8 will -- no, no, no, that is okay but that has been
9 the conventional wisdom and the party line of people
10 who were initially critical.
11 And I thought, you know, to try something
12 like Free Speech, it was the product of a
13 conversation that we had sitting around talking was
14 something that was worthwhile. And we always said at
15 the beginning we are going to try things. Some will
16 work, some won't. But the thing is if they don't
17 work, then people forget that you said some might not
18 work.
19 MR. KALB: How long do you see yourself in
20 this anchor role that you are in right now? And I
21 ask the question because I read somewhere -- and
22 forgive me, but I don't remember the exact
0043
1 location -- that you may be thinking of giving up the
2 anchor slot next year after the election, going
3 full-time to 60 Minutes.
4 MS. COURIC: That is not true.
5 MR. KALB: Not true? Okay. I noticed
6 that when you were in -- well the previous question,
7 do you and your esteemed executive producer Rick
8 Kaplan who is sitting right there -- Rick is one of
9 those most imaginative people in this business. I
10 admire him immensely. You are a first class pro.
11 Can you put another a plan that will boost your
12 ratings?
13 MS. COURIC: Well, we hope that if we
14 continue to do quality work and to be
15 forward-thinking and to come up with different ways
16 of doing stories that obviously we'd like more people
17 to watch, I frankly have never been obsessed with
18 ratings. I probably should be more than I am. But
19 at the Today Show I felt that some of our best years
20 when were we were number 2 and taking risks and
21 trying things and kind of playing with the format.
22 MR. KALB: You sound like a politician who
0044
1 says I never look at polls. I never look at polls.
2 MS. COURIC: It happens to have the
3 benefit of being true, you know.
4 MR. KALB: That is Henry Kissinger's line.
5 MS. COURIC: Clearly, I would like more
6 people to watch. Rick would like more people to
7 watch. But we also feel, every time someone comes up
8 to me and says I really like you and admire you, the
9 first question is are you a Nielson family? But
10 having said that, you know, more than 6 million
11 people are watching every night. That is an
12 extraordinarily high number and I feel really honored
13 that that many people are entrusting us to give them
14 their news.
15 MR. KALB: I don't have to tell you that
16 you are sitting in Walter Cronkite's chair. A big
17 responsibility. But you are also sitting in Dan
18 Rather's chair and Dan was in that chair for 24
19 years. Now he is suing your boss CBS for 70 million
20 bucks.
21 MS. COURIC: Really?
22 MR. KALB: Claiming that CBS treated him
0045
1 very shabbily, hurt his professional reputation, went
2 after him only because it didn't want to offend the
3 Bush administration. And I am wondering as you think
4 about this what your initial response is. What do
5 you think Dan is up to and do you think there is some
6 merit in what he is trying to do?
7 MS. COURIC: I think Dan had an
8 extraordinary career. And I think he was a fine
9 journalist and a hard-working person. I always
10 admired and respected him.
11 I was not there when this happened, but of
12 course I followed it. And I think that he made a
13 mistake. And whether -- I don't know how -- if it
14 was handled completely properly. I mean I think
15 there were a lot of behind-the-scenes machinations
16 going on during that period of time. Certainly a
17 panel of people, some of whom I respect a great deal
18 and others I just don't know who they are at this
19 point in time reviewed it. And I think they did not
20 dot their I's and cross their T's when it came to
21 that story.
22 And I think there are very few network
0046
1 executives -- I don't know what your experience is,
2 Marvin, who deal with difficult decisions or making
3 changes or telling someone that they are no longer
4 needed in a civil, appropriate and kind way. And all
5 I can tell you is that I was very sad to see Dan
6 Rather's career end this way. And I can't really
7 speak of his motives now. And I really don't feel I
8 am well versed enough to have an opinion either way.
9 MR. KALB: Okay. Koppel said the other
10 day that he felt very sorry for Dan and it was very
11 painful process that he was obviously -- is obviously
12 going through. But Ted said that in his judgment the
13 story that Dan did about the President receiving
14 favorable treatment and staying out of service in
15 Vietnam by going to the Texas Air National Guard,
16 that that was I think Ted's exact words were more
17 true than not. And that there was obviously a
18 mistake with some of the documentation.
19 MS. COURIC: I think --
20 MR. KALB: But the basic thrust of the
21 story, Dan argues, is still correct and we have all
22 done stories where a piece of it may not be exactly
0047
1 right, but the thrust of it is. What is your sense
2 of that?
3 MS. COURIC: I think that that is probably
4 true. But I think that when you are doing --
5 although you know again I don't know all the
6 specifics, but when you are making these kinds of
7 allegations, you have to be completely -- you have to
8 back them up completely.
9 MR. KALB: Super careful.
10 MS. COURIC: With information. I think
11 that there was some sloppy work done and sloppy work
12 is sloppy work. Now, whether that somehow obscures
13 the actual story, it does not really matter because
14 our job is to get it right. And I think there were
15 things in there that were quite egregious in terms of
16 how it was reported.
17 MR. KALB: What was egregious?
18 MS. COURIC: Well, I think again you are
19 asking me to relive this whole chapter.
20 MR. KALB: You used that word.
21 MS. COURIC: But in terms of the person
22 who was analyzing the font -- I can't really get into
0048
1 it -- was not a reliable individual and that came
2 through during the investigation. But again I don't
3 really feel comfortable kind of rehashing this whole
4 thing.
5 MR. KALB: Let me move you on to a far
6 more comfortable subject. Do you feel that we may be
7 approaching that time when large corporations are
8 increasingly anxious not to offend the government,
9 particularly -- and this takes you back to what you
10 were saying about 30 minutes ago -- particularly when
11 you are in a wartime situation when nerves on edge.
12 And you wonder right now whether these corporations
13 don't want to lose government contracts and they do
14 own many, many media. And as a matter of fact all
15 over the world today the story of the last 20 years
16 is that more and more of the media end up in the
17 hands of fewer and fewer corporations.
18 So do you sense a danger that these large
19 corporations are going to begin to eat in on your own
20 editorial freedom?
21 MS. COURIC: I think that -- first of all,
22 I think that that existed several years ago. This is
0049
1 not necessarily a new phenomenon.
2 MR. KALB: Uh-huh.
3 MS. COURIC: And I think that there is
4 what I mentioned earlier, sort of insidious pressure
5 or sort of an undercurrent of pressure. I still
6 believe there's a lot of journalistic independence,
7 even given the corporate ownership in some case of
8 media outlets. I think that there are other cases
9 where you have to tow the party line of a certain
10 corporation.
11 But I think that most of my colleagues
12 feel that they have complete freedom I think, know,
13 again during the buildup to the war there was some
14 sort of I felt kind of a subtle pressure and I
15 remember one network executive gave a thumbs up when
16 Bush won Florida during the election coverage, which
17 I thought was really grossly inappropriate. But I
18 think for the most part, there is a lot of
19 journalistic independence still.
20 MR. KALB: I totally agree. Totally
21 agree. We are on the same page there.
22 MS. COURIC: Phew!
0050
1 MR. KALB: However.
2 MS. COURIC: Yes?
3 MR. KALB: Do you sometimes worry that you
4 as an anchor are too busy? That you are doing too
5 many things? That you are giving responsibility to
6 staff people to write things. And you got into
7 trouble once on a plagiarism thing when one of the
8 writers picked up some stuff from the Wall Street
9 Journal and didn't credit it.
10 MS. COURIC: Right.
11 MR. KALB: Do you feel -- for example
12 Rather, at the time of the story we were talking
13 about argues and probably accurately, that he was
14 overwhelmed with preparation for the conventions and
15 the election and a storm in Florida and all of that
16 stuff.
17 An anchor can do the evening news without
18 doing everything else. And as you have examined over
19 the last year, do you find yourself being crowded,
20 being asked to do too many things running a risk that
21 you may not be in control of what goes out on the air
22 under Katie Couric's name?
0051
1 MS. COURIC: Yeah. I think there is
2 always the risk of that. Certainly it's something
3 that I pay attention to. When I am working on a 60
4 Minutes piece and I am traveling, perhaps doing an
5 interview and coming back to do the Evening News and
6 I haven't been as plugged in as I might otherwise be.
7 That is something for me to consider. I think that
8 obviously I trust Rick implicitly. We talk a lot
9 during the course of the day. But it's something I
10 am mindful of and careful of.
11 And you are right it was a problem several
12 months ago when, you know, we were -- I was doing
13 notebooks and they were talking about different
14 topics and we had probably three or four people in
15 the meetings kind of brainstorming and coming up with
16 things and I wrote some and other people wrote some
17 and I would edit them. And I think in those cases,
18 you are right, ultimately I'm responsible. And I
19 think that is it's imperative that you have
20 experienced, ethical people who you can trust in some
21 of those roles.
22 But --
0052
1 MR. KALB: But doesn't it make more sense
2 -- maybe it does not -- make more sense for you
3 because it's your face out there, it's your
4 responsibility, your reputation --
5 MS. COURIC: Right.
6 MR. KALB: Why entrust it to somebody
7 else? Why not write your own copy?
8 MS. COURIC: I do a lot of times. But,
9 you know, there are only so many minutes in a day.
10 And some of these notebooks require a great deal of
11 research. Not just for saying for 54 seconds this is
12 what I think about X, Y and Z. It requires calling
13 certain experts.
14 MR. KALB: You tell us what you think.
15 MS. COURIC: I know but we talk about it
16 and I give them their marching orders and I say would
17 like to do a story on the MacArthur Genius grants and
18 how impressive these people are and how they ought to
19 get more attention. And I will even give them lines
20 and a lot of times I write them myself. But I might
21 say I need you to call Richard Haas at the Council on
22 Foreign Relations, because I may be running to do 60
0053
1 Minutes. You are right, it is something that you
2 have to be exceedingly careful about.
3 MR. KALB: We only have a couple of
4 minutes left and I want to ask you a couple of
5 questions that students asked me to ask you. And one
6 of them is: How does one succeed in this business?
7 And I have to tell you the great story about Dan
8 Shore who was sitting --
9 MS. COURIC: Right there.
10 MR. KALB: When Dan went from newspapering
11 to CBS he asked somebody: What is the secrets of
12 success? How do you succeed? And somebody said it
13 is sincerity. If you can fake that, you have got it
14 made.
15 Putting that aside and everybody should
16 forget that story, what then was your secret of
17 success?
18 MS. COURIC: I think that I really love
19 what I do. I like the nuts and bolts of what goes
20 into what I do. I love to write. I like to talk to
21 people. I am naturally curious. And I think because
22 of that, it is a really good fit for me to have done
0054
1 this for a living. And I think I always tell people
2 they have to do what they are passionate about. And
3 they also have to take a good hard look at their own
4 unique skills or the skills they lack and be
5 realistic about that when they are figuring out what
6 they are going to do.
7 MR. KALB: Another question that I am
8 asked to ask you is how do you put up with all of the
9 pressure that you are under every single day?
10 MS. COURIC: Well, I think part of it is
11 because I have a really healthy foundation thanks to
12 my parents. I have a very healthy sense of who I am.
13 And believe it or not, still a lot of self confidence
14 in my abilities. And my work is exceedingly
15 important to me, but not as important as my children
16 and my family. And it's one important part of my
17 life.
18 But I think I just have a very healthy
19 perspective and I am very a grounded person for
20 whatever reason, probably because of my parents.
21 MR. KALB: Do you have enough time to read
22 a book that has nothing to do with politics and Iraq?
0055
1 MS. COURIC: Yeah.
2 MR. KALB: Like what?
3 MS. COURIC: I am reading "Eat, Pray,
4 Love" right now like everyone else in America and I
5 am finally into India because I got sick of Italy and
6 all the food. It made me hungry every time I read
7 that. That's what I'm reading now.
8 MR. KALB: Do you have private time?
9 MS. COURIC: Yes, I do I enjoy my
10 weekends. I try do new fun things.
11 MR. KALB: Do you get out in New York?
12 MS. COURIC: Yeah, I do.
13 MR. KALB: Do you go to the movies?
14 MS. COURIC: I do I go to the movies. I
15 went to "Becoming Jane" with my daughter Elie, who
16 read a lot of Jane Austin novels. I make time to
17 enjoy my life. That is really important to me.
18 Having a husband who died at 42 and a sister who died
19 at 54, I really realize the importance of finding joy
20 sort of on a daily basis.
21 MR. KALB: Katie, I am really sorry that I
22 have to interrupt this conversation because I have a
0056
1 feeling that we could go on longer but it is the
2 turning of the clock once again. But look around
3 there are hundreds of students in this room and I
4 think they join me in saying thank you Katie Couric
5 for coming here sharing some time with us and talking
6 to us. I am Marvin Kalb, good night and good luck.
7 [Applause.]
8 MS. COURIC: Now is the time to have fun.
9 We're not on TV anymore.
10 MR. KALB: Yeah, we are.
11 MS. COURIC: We are? Oh, sorry.
12 MR. KALB: If you have a question, if you
13 have questions, and I am sure some of you do, and if
14 you want to ask them, there are two guys one here and
15 one here. And please go over to them, ask your
16 question, but I beg you no speeches because then I
17 will have to cut you off and I don't want to do that.
18 Why don't we start right here.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, my name is Seraglio
20 Gore. Thank you for being here. My question relates
21 to we all have friends or people that we know that
22 come back from Iraq and it seems that they portray a
0057
1 different picture from what we get on the media. You
2 mentioned in your opening remarks there is fatigue
3 with Iraq war and stuff like that. Why don't we hear
4 more positive stories? Why don't we get the same
5 pictures that the troops on the ground get? Thank
6 you.
7 MS. COURIC: I think, you know, I think
8 there are probably 130,000 -- where did you go,
9 Seraglio -- different opinions about what is going to
10 and a lot of it does depend on your personal
11 experience. And that is one of the reasons I wanted
12 to sit and talk to soldiers about their personal
13 experience when I was there.
14 I think it's hard to tell some of these
15 positive stories when the security situation is so
16 dire and serious and difficult that reporters can't
17 even leave to cover any positive things that are
18 going on. So I think because of the security
19 situation and how bad it has been, it has been very
20 difficult for members of the media to convey that.
21 But I hear that complaint a lot. Of course you hear
22 the other side as well.
0058
1 MR. KALB: Thank you Katie, yes, please?
2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just want to start off
3 by saying -- my name is Jen. I am a proud GW
4 student. I have three very, very quick questions.
5 The first one is what advice do you offer to young
6 women who want to become strong leaders like
7 yourself?
8 MS. COURIC: Well, thank you for calling
9 me a strong leader, first of all. I think that you
10 really have to work hard. One of the things I hear
11 about young people, which I hate that expression,
12 coming through the ranks is there's a certain feeling
13 of entitlement. And I think really the pervasive
14 culture in our society is people don't really have to
15 sacrifice much. They can have it all.
16 And I think early on in your career, you
17 do have to work long hours and you do have to miss
18 maybe a wedding that you wanted to go to or a party
19 to, in the case of journalism to cover a story or
20 follow a reporter or work with a producer. So it
21 requires a lot of hard work. So that would be my
22 first piece of advice. Work hard and you will be
0059
1 noticed.
2 And I also -- you have to kind of be a go
3 getter. I remember when I worked at ABC News as a
4 desk assistant where I basically got Frank Reynolds
5 ham sandwiches and answered the telephone and made
6 coffee, I would write story ideas for and anchor who
7 worked on 20/20 named Don Farmer. And I would go up
8 and stay I think you should do a piece on compulsive
9 gambling. I read about a place in Pikesville,
10 Maryland. And I could see how impressed he was that
11 I took the time and effort to go the extra mile. And
12 I later ended up being his producer at CNN. I think
13 you really do have to go the extra mile as well and
14 go above and beyond whatever your position is at the
15 time.
16 MR. KALB: Next question.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Katie, Marvin, I am
18 Zeke Williams and my question is you talked a lot
19 about people in the media not rocking the boat in the
20 leadup to the war. At what point do you think it is
21 appropriate for someone in your position -- which I
22 am very comfortable that you are in -- to
0060
1 editorialize -- editorialize on the facts on the
2 ground?
3 MS. COURIC: He wants to know if you are a
4 Nielson family. You know, I don't know the answer to
5 that question. I think that if there is some
6 situation that is, as Marvin describes, so glaringly
7 obvious, I think there might be a place and time for
8 that.
9 NBC declared that there was a civil war
10 going to in Iraq, which I am not sure how comfortable
11 I felt with them making that determination. I think
12 most people accepted that it was a civil war, but for
13 them to kind of announce it as a network decision, I
14 am not sure if I thought that was appropriate. But
15 at some point in time, it might be. But I just don't
16 think the time is right now.
17 MR. KALB: Thank you.
18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, my name is
19 Stephanie and I am a student from Milwaukee,
20 Wisconsin. And I wanted to make a comment. You
21 mentioned a lot about how news is very polarized and
22 there is not a lot of straight down the middle. So I
0061
1 want to ask you where you get your sources from when
2 you go down to write the news or the other people
3 under you write the news.
4 MS. COURIC: Well, a lot of times from the
5 reporters out in the field. I think there is no
6 substitute for actually being there and talking to
7 people and getting information. That is why I think
8 my trip to Iraq just the pure sensory experience of
9 being there and seeing it with my own eyes and
10 talking to the soldiers and asking our fixers to go
11 out and talk to Iraqi civilians themselves and then
12 getting it translated, which were all things that I
13 really wanted to do, was so critically important.
14 But we get from a variety of source but
15 usually from our reporters who are directly talking
16 to the individuals.
17 I'm a little nervous about Wikipedia since
18 anybody -- they now have stricter controls on that
19 but we try to obviously double-source our information
20 and make it as accurate as possible.
21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Bob Web. I
22 have sort of a lifelong interest in the news and the
0062
1 subject matter today is the press and democracy, and
2 we are more dependent today than ever before on the
3 press doing its job. And I would like your opinion
4 on the fact that a lot of journalism seems to be
5 think tank reporting, the thoughts of think tanks
6 sort of predigested news or relying on news sources
7 as opposed to discovering the events behind what is
8 being reported.
9 MS. COURIC: Huh?
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: What I am saying is that
11 the discovery of the facts sort of going to your
12 point --
13 MR. KALB: Original reporting of the
14 networks.
15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: The reporting that led
16 up to Iraq. For instance, I am talking generically
17 whether it is global warming or whatever it might be,
18 focusing not on what the think tank is saying or the
19 White House is saying --
20 MS. COURIC: I understand. Rather than
21 finding sources finding the information yourself.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Double checking what we
0063
1 are being told.
2 MS. COURIC: I think that is obviously
3 something that people do not want to take, anybody in
4 journalism hopefully won't take an expert opinion at
5 face value. But there are sometimes quite frankly
6 when experts can be valuable and it might be clear
7 that they are expressing their points of view. But I
8 think you are right to rely on them too heavily
9 without firsthand reporting really jeopardizes the
10 quality of the product. And that is something you
11 don't want to do.
12 Now, you know, one of the concerns, of
13 course which we really didn't get into tonight is
14 sort of the need to make money, save money, and cover
15 the world in the best way you can. And I think those
16 forces are always kind of working against each other
17 in some cases.
18 But you know David Martin to me is the
19 best Pentagon correspondent in the business and I
20 know, because I used to be in the next cubical and he
21 would walk down the hall with his notepad and I would
22 shake in terror that he would totally scoop me on a
0064
1 story but I did scoop him on a few. I think I'd have
2 complete confidence in people like that who are
3 experienced, who have a myriad of sources. So
4 hopefully you have reporters who know their subject
5 matter inside and out and who are in a position to
6 judge who is an authoritative person to talk about,
7 who might have an agenda they are pushing.
8 We are being asked to make those judgment
9 calls on a daily basis and you have to have a lot of
10 faith and trust in the people who have been hired and
11 who have proven themselves over and over again who
12 are working for your organization.
13 MR. KALB: Is CBS giving you enough money
14 to do the job that you feel should be done?
15 MS. COURIC: You know I think that CBS,
16 they have been very generous in beefing up the news
17 operation. I think unfortunately, it atrophied for a
18 while. They weren't forward enough looking and I
19 think almost everyone at CBS News will tell you the
20 same thing. Various people kind of came and went who
21 might have been available to add to the bench or to
22 add to the roster of quote-unquote talent, which is a
0065
1 word I hate to use. But I think now they are
2 realizing that they need to rebuild in many ways and
3 I think they are taking a lot of steps to do that.
4 Are they taking as many steps as quickly as we would
5 like? No.
6 MR. KALB: Okay. Yes?
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi Marvin, Hi Katie.
8 Connie Wand, basically I want to congratulate you
9 Katie, you make women journalists and Virginian's
10 proud. I have a money question. There are fewer
11 opportunities for individual reporters. Salaries are
12 shrinking or nonexistent. Especially in this day of
13 bloggers. Would you advise this next generation of
14 reporters to pursue a career in news without another
15 job on the side?
16 MS. COURIC: Like waitress ing?
17 Absolutely. I mean I think there are still many,
18 many media outlets. I know that there have been
19 cutbacks and the almighty dollar and the bottom line
20 is paramount in the eyes of many. But I still think
21 there are many opportunities. My dad was a print
22 reporter. He didn't do it for the money when he
0066
1 wrote political pieces for the Atlanta Constitution
2 many years ago.
3 And I think if you are interested in the
4 world around and care about it and are willing to
5 commit yourself to it and quite frankly have some
6 talent, then you can make a living being a reporter.
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, my name is Katie
8 Williams and I am a student from Altoona,
9 Pennsylvania. And as a student I have obviously a
10 lot of time constraints. One of the things that
11 discourages me about the media is what I turn on the
12 channel and try to find something on the news to
13 watch between classes or between readings. And what
14 I see instead of something that I feel is beneficial,
15 it is something like the OJ case.
16 And I was wondering what you think about
17 why these kind of things sort of take over news and
18 what we could do about it.
19 MS. COURIC: Well, that is an excellent
20 question. And it's perplexing to me as well. I
21 think the reason why you see so many stories about OJ
22 is that when OJ is the television the ratings jump
0067
1 and people who are programming the news realize that
2 and so they could not have been more thrilled when
3 the whole memorabilia thing unfolded. Some of them.
4 And you know, it's supply and demand. In news as
5 well.
6 But obviously I think that people have a
7 responsibility to not necessarily ignore the OJ story
8 but not give it the kind of prevalence it often has,
9 especially on cable.
10 MR. KALB: What did you do with it on the
11 Evening News?
12 MS. COURIC: Did we -- we sort of did one
13 piece, I think. Yeah. That's right. We did one
14 piece.
15 MR. KALB: Thank you very much by the way.
16 MS. COURIC: But I share your pain.
17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Katie. My name is
18 Dan Kahn. And my question for you is I actually had
19 a class at GW specifically about media and the war.
20 And often the discussion turns to media ethics. Can
21 the American media objectively report about problems
22 the troops are encountering and not be anti-American
0068
1 or anti-war? What is your take on this and are you
2 an American first or a journalist first?
3 MS. COURIC: I would say I am an American
4 journalist.
5 [Applause.]
6 MS. COURIC: You know I think that
7 certainly on a daily basis we cover the challenges,
8 the soldiers are facing both microcosmically and
9 macrocosmically and I think you definitely can do
10 that ethically without feeling as if you are not
11 supporting the troops. And I think that is what many
12 of them want as well. But you know it is a constant
13 struggle to be balanced, to try to show different
14 perspectives in different situations and different
15 things that are going on.
16 But if that is the question, if you can
17 ethically cover those kinds of things and still be a
18 patriotic American, yes, I believe you can.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi Katie.
20 MR. KALB: That is a wonderful subject
21 matter.
22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Jordan Tyler
0069
1 from Los Angeles and I am a student at GW. And I
2 wondering how you felt about shows like the Daily
3 Show and the Colbert Report. Do you feel they add to
4 the news environment do they detract from it? Do you
5 feel like they are getting more attention because the
6 networks are not paying attention to younger
7 generations? And how do you feel the networks can
8 fix those problems?
9 MS. COURIC: Well, I love those shows and
10 I have been on both shows and that is a real
11 experience. Especially Stephen Colbert, because he
12 is so crazy. And I just saw Jon Stewart last night.
13 I think Ted Koppel put it very well. He was honored
14 with a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Emmys and he
15 said he saw Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, although
16 he just mentioned Jon Stewart, as an editorial
17 cartoonist on television. And I think they are a
18 great addition to the dialogue. Incredibly
19 entertaining. I think Jon asks some really good
20 questions of people. But I don't think as Ted said
21 it should be a complete replacement for other forms
22 of news.
0070
1 No, no, no, I mean, I know, not even for
2 my own selfish interest. But just in general for
3 people how people get news and information. If you
4 only got from those outlets that you would not have
5 obviously necessarily a full picture of any
6 situation, but I love the slows and I think they are
7 great.
8 MR. KALB: Hang on. We have one more.
9 One more quick question and a quick answer.
10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I am Pat McClendon
11 from Durham, North Carolina. A student at GW. In
12 the era of the 24-hour news cycle, do you see old
13 media being relegated to a niche market or do you see
14 old media evolving to be a competitor with CNN and
15 MSNBC and the other 24-hour networks?
16 MS. COURIC: Well, since we don't have a
17 cable network it is hard to be a competitor with CNN
18 and MSNBC. I think that -- I don't know the answer
19 to that question. I think with fragmentation and so
20 many different sources, that certainly entertainment
21 you are looking at more niche markets and
22 individualized consumption.
0071
1 But I think that probably that old media
2 will transition and become new media and that will
3 ultimately happen in some way shape or form. What it
4 will exactly look like is the million dollar question
5 and if I knew that I would be Marvin Kalb.
6 MR. KALB: Thank you all very much for
7 coming. And thank you Katie.
8 MS. COURIC: Thank you. Thanks.
9 [Applause.]
10 [Whereupon, the program was adjourned.]
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